Crime weekly full interview (part 1)

This is Part 1 of a 2-part interview I did with Haley Gray, researcher for the series on Crime Weekly about my dad John Cornelius McGhee. This was such an incredible deep-dive to help Derrick and Stephanie understand the nuances and details of my dad’s case before they recorded the episodes. Even if you’ve been listening to Ice Cold Case, this is a unique look inside what an interview looks like that I do often for different shows that decide to cover my dad’s case. It can be emotional, the questions are intense, but it’s part of the task I have to do to share J.C. McGhee’s story with the world.

I thought just to start off you could talk about your relationship with your dad.

It's tough because I was so young when my dad was murdered, so my memories are. Really faint, but also in a good way, I guess I only really remember the good stuff. I don't really have a lot of memories of the mundane days because it was so long ago. But I remember him being really funny and really musical. He loved to sing in the car. And at the time the Nelly album hot in here had just come out, so I remember being literally five listening to that album from start to finish, which is wildly inappropriate but also very funny. And my sister was 16 at the time, so they had a different dynamic. I was like the baby. So I was able to be cute and get away with a lot. Whereas my sister was getting in trouble for like, you know, sneaking out and talking to boys. And So I got to see him be sort of a strict dad, which I remember. But it wasn't happening to me. So it was funny to watch them bicker because I was not involved in the drama. And I remember him being really helpful. He had a lot of friends. So I remember him always being there for people. Of course, at the time I didn't know the context that like he's meeting these people in AA or NA and helping them through a little bit more serious situations than what I saw. But in my mind I'm like, oh, he's buying someone dinner or he's letting someone stay at his house. That's so nice. Ignoring or not understanding the fuller context there. And same with my sister. I used to think oh, my sister's just mad at my dad because. He said she can't hang out with her friends on the weekends, but obviously there was a lot more going on there. My sister saw a lot more and was involved in a lot more. So in Sort of a good way, I think my memories of him are a bit skewed based on my age and what was happening to me at the time. So I remember him as a really great person and a great dad, which made learning about him really interesting because I'm learning about all of the other things that I never was exposed to,

As you've done the podcast, have you come to know like way more about your dad and just learned about who he was fully as a person? 

Yeah. In ways that I. Maybe no one should learn about their parent. I've learned so much about my dad in the sense that he almost feels more like a friend than a parent. I'm learning things that no one wants to know about their parents should never know about their parents and probably will never know about their parents. And so to be able to get to know my dad through this way does make him feel a little bit more like a friend than a parent. And also, I lost him when I was so young. I never really had that established relationship with him in that way. So I do feel a bit more friendly with him than I would maybe my mom, who I only know as my mom. When you hear stories from people about. An adult figure in your life you really get this sense of who they were at your age that you currently are and things that you would maybe never know otherwise. And it's fun because I get to envision my dad, I'm still not the age that he was when he was murdered, but I do get to try to understand who my dad would've been at 29 versus who he was when he was murdered at 45. And that is interesting. It puts him in a different light for me. It also contextualizes obviously what was going on at the time of his death, but also him as a person. And I jumped into this thinking, I'm investigating my dad's murder, and now I'm jumping into this sort of understanding the fuller context of who my dad was as a person. As a friend and a sibling and a son, and it really adds much more to this than even I was expecting to get out of it, which is a relationship with my dad, even if it's parasocial, but also this empathy for the other people in his life who lost someone that was important to them, that they knew far better than I did. And it's been really interesting to get to know someone through this way. I don't think anyone really gets the opportunity to learn about their parent in the ways that I am. So it's interesting. It's sad, but it's exciting and I'm grateful for the opportunity in some sort of weird, twisted way that I get to know my dad like this. It makes him feel more real. I lost him when I was so young. It's like some days I'm like, am I investigating the murder of a ghost? Who was this person? So it is nice to really add a lot more context and character to him and his story. 

that makes a lot of sense. Can you talk about just a little bit about your family? You had your older sister who was 16 and I know you had some other siblings. Can you talk just a little bit about your family set up? 

So my dad had other children with other women, so I know for sure that I have. Two older siblings with the same mom Joel and Yolanda. There's rumors I think it's been proven through paternity tests that my dad had two other children before that when he was very young, like 16. And there's a sister and a brother of mine and it's said to me that the oldest brother has passed away. I think. During Covid or there was some sort of health issue or something that happened then, but he never claimed my dad. So I think there was this weird dynamic of is he really related to us? I think he might have been. And my dad did have children allegedly when he was really young. And I think he might have been one of them, but he never really claimed us as family. So he has passed away. And then another sister who's older than Joel and Yolanda, and her name's Kathy. And she is written about in the probate records and she's referenced, so I think she is actually a sibling. I think she's one of the people who did a paternity test when my dad died and is a sibling. But I don't really know her. And she's significantly older. Everyone's older than me, but she's like significantly older. And then Joel and Yolanda are older than that. And then Alyssa, whose mom is Barb and she's 10 years older than I am, and then me, so there's a big gap there. And then my dad had me and then seven years later, almost like six years later, had Shane. So Shane was only, I was six turning seven when my dad was murdered. I was like two weeks away from turning seven. And Shane was only seven or eight months old. So Shane and I are like six years apart, almost seven years apart. And he's the final. There was rumors that my dad had knocked up someone else either in between myself and Shane or right after, but that woman, I believe had an abortion. But then there's like rumors sometimes that there's another one running around. I have no idea. So no clue. I don't think she ended up having the baby, but I'm not actually sure. I think people would've come out of the woodwork when my dad was murdered and there was like money, passing around and said, oh, that was my kid. So I don't think that he had another, but who knows? It would be a very crazy realization. I also think maybe by now I would've heard from them, but I have no idea. So your dad was quite the ladies man. Quite the ladies man. And like real, I mean in a like Nick Cannon light I'm like, I don't know why you need all these children running around. It's very weird to me. But maybe that's like the generational thing. I don't know anyone my age that wants even a single child, let alone like a bunch. So I don't know if that's like the generational gap. Nick Cannon also is like old, sorry. So I don't know if that was the thing of the time.

And it was cool to have a bunch of kids, but now I'm like, I don't know anyone that even wants one kid. So I don't know. But yes, quite the ladies man. Loved having children, which is so bizarre. But yeah, I guess thanks. I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for that, but I'm also like so weird to me. 

So when your dad was killed, your parents were not together, right? My parents were separated. They were never married but they were not together when he was murdered. They were really cordial and friendly. They actually spoke like. I think the night before or two nights before he was killed and they had still some sort of like relationship. They would pass me back and forth. And also I think my dad would help my mom sometimes if she like needed extra cash or at the time if my mom would relapse, my dad would help her like regroup and get back, on track. So they had some sort of relationship, but they weren't together at the time. Yeah. 

Wow. It sounds like you had a really tumultuous young childhood. 

Yeah, It's actually really interesting. I was shielded from so much. For better or for worse I really had no idea what was going on. Like at all. I had no sense that any of this was happening. No context. Really shielded from a lot of this stuff, and I think that's good. It made my childhood a lot happier than what it sounds like on paper when you're reading oh my God, all this stuff was going on while she was, a young child. I was like, yeah, but that was not my reality. My reality was completely different than what was really happening. Which is interesting. I'm now going back and processing the trauma as an adult. It's very weird. I don't know if a lot of people end up having to do that because you get it when it's happening, and I wasn't getting it when it was happening. It still wasn't a great childhood by any means, but it was not as bad as it sounds. On paper because I was really unaware of all the ins and outs. I was raised by my grandma. So that comes with, the weird challenges of going to school and being like, oh, you all have parents, and I don't have my grandma raises me, and that's a little weird, but I, had friends and my grandma would let people come over and spend the night and take me to sleepovers and I did all the normal things without realizing oh, this is strange, or this feels off, or this is weird. And I really had no idea about the drug aspect of what was really happening until, I didn't know that my mom was a drug addict until I was a senior in college. So it was like very shielded from me for a long time. Even visiting my mom, I remember visiting my mom in like a. A halfway house with my grandma. And I don't know what I thought my mom was doing there, but I had no idea it was because she was a recovering addict. Weird in the sense of no kid should be visiting their mom in a halfway house, but I was like, oh, my mom just has eight roommates and lives in this house and I don't live with her. And that's, I, it wasn't even oh, that's strange. It was just like, oh, ha like we're playing like card games in this bedroom that my mom lives in, in this house with like other people. I don't know. So very interesting how my brain processed it at the time versus now looking back, going oh my God. I guess this adds context now to, all of these different things, but. It's so crazy to, to learn something about something. It's, I it's a, I don't know the feeling, but I imagine it's similar to finding out you're adopted like way later in life and you've lived your whole life really with this like belief system and this foundation and this fact that's not fact. And you're like, this is so jarring and so crazy and shakes up, all these foundational beliefs you had about yourself and your life and your own lived experience. And that's where we could go, it's a whole other non true crime topic, but reality is so crazy because reality is perception. And to me, we can get into it with my dad. Like my dad died of a heart attack and that was the truth. And still a truth, like I grieved my dad's death as a heart attack. I, in my mind know what it's like to lose a parent to a heart attack. Because I did. That was my reality. And then I also know what it's like to lose my dad to murder, because that's also my reality. It's just so weird. And I don't know why they chose that to be the thing. Looking back, maybe my mom worked in open heart surgery and maybe that was just like, oh, that's makes sense. I don't know. But that was the thing that they chose. And so I processed that information. I was six about to be seven and that was that it, there was nothing that could be done about it. And. That was the end. And then when I was 16 I had this like very bizarre moment of an otherworldly experience of my intuition. Also this like weird sort of, I don't know, I feel weird even being like this, like premonition, I don't know the right word for it, but I had a feeling that something was off and that people weren't telling me the truth. And again, I don't know if it was just context clues, like being around my family more and seeing how they were interacting with me and then just feeling okay, this doesn't feel right. Or if it was this weird, something. But I. I asked my mom when I was 16 if there was something else going on and if my cousin Omar was around when my dad had a heart attack. 'cause that's how I thought my dad died. And that's when my mom told me the truth, which was that my dad had been murdered and it was an unsolved case and they weren't really sure what happened. And at this point it had been 10 years and no one had really figured it out and no one was really doing anything about it. And there were a mixture of emotions at the time. I didn't know about my mom's drug problems then. So I felt a very deep sense of betrayal that then just was exacerbated as I learned more about my mom. 'cause this was when I was 16. I was a senior in high school and it wouldn't be for three years that I learned about my mom's, other I. Problems. Very angry, confused frustrated by sort of the lack of effort to solve the case. I, my mom put me on America's most Wanted and cold case files when I was like literally seven or eight. So I'm like, you're so into this stuff, how could you not have done anything about it? It just seemed it was a very confusing time. I also, wished that I had known the truth. It's hard to know how someone will process and react to information at such a young age, but I do feel like I had to grow up very quickly, so for them not to have the wherewithal to tell me, I felt really slighted by that. I also felt really stupid. My dad was murdered like two and a half hours away from where I grew up. So I'm running around my hometown saying that my dad had a heart attack and people definitely knew the truth. So I felt stupid just living in this lie and then feeling almost Truman show, like where it's like other people know that's not true and they're just letting me live in this world this was not Santa Claus in elementary school where some kid ruins it for you in math class. It's like nobody told me. And other people definitely knew. And so I felt silly and stupid living in this sort of alternative reality. But I understand the sort of intention behind not telling me the truth. My grandma's also. Very kind and try to do what she thought was right, whether it was or wasn't. And so I think her intentions were pure. But if I could give anyone any advice, it's if they can talk, they can hear the truth. And I think it's probably better to just be honest. That's a lot for you to process and like you said, those feelings of betrayal and also just feeling like everyone knew and none of you thought to tell me. It's one of those things where it's like the amount of trauma you think you're ensuing on a young child will only be multiplied the longer it goes. So it's like better to just do it because then you're adding those, feeling the potential feelings of. Betrayal lies, deception. The longer it goes on, like just you eliminate those feelings entirely if you just tell them. And then the process of having to deal with it later and re-triggering and re-traumatizing is I think kids can actually process things a lot better and quicker than adults. And then there's no I have no science behind that, but just my own personal experience. I don't remember someone doing something really horrific to me when I was a child. I remember it as an adult, so it's like just get it outta the way and let them process it and move forward because then you have more experiences in life to pad the bad thing. Versus now I'm like by the time I was 16, it's like I'm a fully grown adult I'm gonna remember that for the rest of my life. Like I don't even remember the day that they told me my dad had a heart attack. I just know that it happened. And so it's so much easier to just get it outta the way when you're a kid and you can pad it with other life experience, I think, than to have it when you're like at such a pivotal adult age where like that moment will then stick with you for forever and you can't really do anything about that. I dunno. 

And plus all the times that they had to be like hush around you, kind of backtracking a little bit can we talk about your dad's role as a confidential informant? Did he talk to your family about this? Or did they find out after? And do you think that this played a role in what happened to him? 

So I don't know if he ever I think it was clear that he was an informant. The way he became an informant, it was just obvious. And it was for a case where he had to testify in court. In the early nineties, my dad had a bar called Johnny Kools, and it was on the wheeling side of the West Virginia, Ohio border. So it was on the West Virginia side. And there were illegal drugs coming through and sex workers there. And it was a, a fun place to be in the nineties, very typical nineties vibe bar. And they got busted. And my dad being the owner of the bar was very much implicated in this entire sort of sting, which was clearly a target on a hotspot for black people to go. I don't think that this was, anything but that. But regardless, they were really targeting this group of people that were. Trafficking drugs in and out of this area. And so they weren't really that concerned with my dad owning a bar with sex workers. They were really trying to get this drug ring. So as a result of that sort of attempt, they went to my dad and said, Hey, we'll cut you a deal. If you turn on the drug dealer that was trafficking drugs through your bar we'll, you'll be out scot free. And that's how they get you. Obviously this is not uncommon. And so my dad took the deal. That drug dealer just happened to be my dad's nephew, and so my dad testified against him as well as. Upwards. I mean there were like [00:21:00] 75 people on this indictment, so there were a lot of people going on and testifying against Rico and he ended up getting a life sentence, no possibility of parole under the RICO Act. And so my dad, there were other people that were arrested with him, and my dad became a CI because a lot of people weren't really trusting my dad at the time. And he had his backup against the wall and I think he needed, some sense of security and some sense of livelihood. He had to make money. So that is what started this. I don't know if he had been a CI before that. It's really unclear, but that's the first public case that my dad ratted anyone out on and had any hand in. And from there it's believed that he was working with the Belmont County Sheriff's Department on a regular basis. He's identified in. Case as a ci, but it's unclear what other cases he was working with them on, if any. But I do know that he was regularly meeting with the sheriff and having meetings with people at the Belmont County Sheriff's Department and people were coming by the house and meeting with my dad outside. My sister saw, him meeting with other people and cars coming back and forth between the house. It's pretty clear that he was still working with them. It's just not as clear what those cases were, if they were really working on something big at the time. But that's when it started. People knew, my dad had a reputation of being a snitch and that was, the way it was. I think that it loses context when they're not really understanding. It was my dad's backup against the wall, and I think there's just this very black and white. Idea of you just don't wrap people out. But when you look at the fact that he had full custody of my sister, if he went to prison, my sister could have potentially gone into a foster care system. It could have been a very different story for her. So when you're thinking about the greater context, it's like you rat out your nephew or something really bad happens to your kids. I don't know what I would do in that situation. So that's how it all started. The ending is a bit more unclear because they don't have to say what he was doing or what he was working on. It's only public record when they go on the stand and testify. 

I hate that you have to preface, all of that by, it should just be understood that your dad did what he had to do. You know what I mean? It's not like your dad was just like, Hey, cops, guess what's going on? Come in here 

I don't think that I, and maybe I'm wrong, I guess my friends always say I should stop speaking in absolutes. But I would venture to say there's never been a confidential informant in the history of confidential informants that was voluntarily, because we have a different word for that, and that's a detective. So if you're voluntarily inserting yourself into a situation to get information, they're not calling you a ci. You're a CI because. You were already in that situation and it was that, or you are implicated as well. And if you're white, more often than not, your reward for that is protective custody. Or you go into some sort of program where they move you and they change your name and whatever you're unharmed. I think about like even white collar criminals who go to prison or celebrities, they're put in protective custody. No doubt about it, regardless of what they did because they don't want any harm to come to them. That grace would never have been given for my dad was definitely not given to anyone that he helped get locked up. And if you are a confidential informant because you happen to work for a company and you are calling and being the, whatever they call it, whistleblower. You go into a program where like you are protected and this is not one of those situations and not very common in this community.

It's really crazy that they had him testify against his own nephew and then not protect him after that. Now, was this his so this was his sibling's child? 

Yeah, his brother's son. 

And did that cause a riff in the family? 

Huge. This is a very tight knit family, tight knit community. Lots of secrets being held by all parties involved. And it really, I. It was catastrophic for that bond and relationship, I would say. I don't know if I wasn't alive at the time and my mom wasn't around. She only has heard stories of what happened as an afterthought of all of this. But it does seem like things were never the same as they were before that. And it really did drive a huge wedge in the family from a moral standpoint what's right, what's wrong, but also from a trust perspective, I think a lot of trust was lost there and it seems like things were different from moving forward from that point. 

That's understandable. And I'm sure your dad really struggled with that.

I think the morals, my dad struggled with a lot of depression and anxiety and I think the moral struggle. If my dad wasn't murdered, I think that would've killed him. This like internal mental turmoil that I think he really was unhappy with the hand he was dealt and how he had to deal with things, but [00:27:00] also his decisions and could he have done things differently. I think that sort of loop made him spiral for a long time. 

With the custody battle that your dad was going through, can you talk just a little bit about that and touch on your feelings on if it was involved in your dad's murder?

So Danene, oh, Danene. Rest in peace. My dad, when I was a child got involved with this sex worker It's unclear if she was propositioned as a business exchange or if they were really dating before or after all of this. But at some point Anine got pregnant and there was talk about getting rid of the baby. There was talk about it not being my dad's. There was like a lot of conversations happening over the nine months of her pregnancy, but it ultimately was [00:28:00] decided that she, didn't wanna keep the baby, but wanted to profit off of being pregnant. And so there is this house, or was this house in Philadelphia? Madam Marie's, I don't know if it's still there. Madam Marie would be very old now. But half of it was sex workers and the other half was this, if you happen to get pregnant, she would take care of you and make sure that everything was good to go. So she kept women clean on this other half of the house so that they could give birth to healthy babies. And people who either were embarrassed that they couldn't have children or whatever could adopt. Through this very weird illegal scheme, a healthy baby. And so they went there and Denine had already cashed her checks. So it was 20 grand total for this operation. The families or the couples that wanted to buy the child would pay $20,000, five would go to Madam Marie, five to the doctor who would sign off on all the paperwork, five to the lawyer who helped with that, and then five to the mother who gave birth and INE had already cashed in the checks. And there was already a family that was going to take this child who ended up being my brother Shane. And it's unclear whether or not Shane ended up going home with this family or if INE decided at the hospital she wanted to keep the baby. But one way or the other. She ended up taking Shane back to Ohio with her and decided that she was going to keep him. And at this point, this is all off the record, so this couple isn't going to fight for this baby because what they were doing was not approved at all anyways. So there's really nothing anyone could do about it. If she took the money and kept the baby. It's what are we like? We can't sue her. This is all illegal. So she takes Shane home and Shane was born addicted to heroin because Deneen relapsed while pregnant. So there's also the speculation that maybe they didn't want Shane 'cause he was so sick when he was born. I dunno if you've ever seen a baby that's addicted to drugs, it's. Incredibly sad and horrible. Horrible to watch. So there's lots of different speculations about why this baby never ended up with this couple. But he was born very sick, which on paper in any regular world should disqualify Deneen from being a fit mother. However, the courts really side with the mom. So Deneen was allowed to keep Shane while my dad was actively fighting for custody. So there wasn't a situation where it was like we're gonna take him from both of you. Neither of you can have him. It was Denine gets him until this all gets sorted out, even though he was born into the situation of like very unfit circumstances. So they went through a pretty honestly pretty quick custody battle. Within seven months they were already due for their final court hearing, which I mean, these things can take forever, so not too crazy. And in the meantime, my dad had a relationship with Shane and was watching him and taking care of him, letting Denine live on his property so that he could keep an eye on them and make sure that, Shane was okay. They were due in court for their final hearing on July 12th, but my dad was murdered on July 11th. So right there, it's very clear that there's, at best coincidence involved in this, and the timing is very suspicious. So that was one of the first places I looked when looking into this because it's just so bizarre that Deneen could stand to lose not only custody of her child, but any sort of social security check for any disability that he would have from the self-induced trauma that she put on him.He still to this day is very, stunted developmentally, and, a disabled child stands to get a pretty hefty check every month from the government. And she's, desperate when you're an addict, you're really desperate to keep up this lifestyle. So she could stand to lose a lot from that perspective. Also not to negate, this inherent love for your child, even if you're making. Terrible decisions. So there's a lot on the line for her. For this all to happen is very crazy. And she obviously kept Shane when my dad was murdered because that's his only living parent. So there was a lot of speculation that there was something going on there. I think it's a really solid place to start an investigation. The further along I got into it, it seemed unlikely that there was any connection. Denine has since passed away. She died during COVID of not of Covid. She couldn't stay clean long enough for them to operate on her, so they asked her to stay clean so that they could do a surgery that she desperately needed and she. Couldn't, and they couldn't operate on her and she passed away in the hospital. And I think that's poetic and this very sad reality that she just could not beat this disease, which is addiction long enough to save her own life. She couldn't do it to have a healthy baby. She couldn't do it to give him a solid life and she couldn't do it right at the end to preserve any sort of health that she could have had. , I just don't know if it had anything to do with that. I think, I don't know if I believe in coincidence and I think it's very strange that this all happened when it did, and potentially there's a weird connection where someone benefited something from it, but I just don't know if that had anything to do with it. So did you uncover the house in Philadelphia, like in your investigation and were you like, what the fuck is this? It's really crazy how many pieces of this story are just so common knowledge in this town. My mom talked about it like it was, gossip she heard at the nail salon and when bringing it up to other people, they're like, oh yeah. Like that, that was happening. Like I felt like when I first heard it oh my God, I've made this big discovery. This could be a piece that no one's really thought about before. And then you start talking to people in this town and they're like, oh yeah. That was going on. We all knew about it. You're not just rediscovering anything. And that's how I feel about a lot of this stuff. And that's what makes this story so freaking fascinating to me, is that. I am in my mind uncovering vital pieces of information to solve a murder. And then I find out that like half of this town already knew all of this, and they just don't care. Or they're so desensitized to it that it doesn't mean anything to them. And meanwhile I'm like no. Like this could unlock a very crucial piece of this. But they're also desensitized to gun violence and the police not caring and the police not doing anything about quote unquote vital information anyways, that they're like, yeah, whatever. We've known that, but we just didn't think it mattered, or we didn't think anyone would care, or it didn't seem that important. And that's what's been the weirdest thing about this is I feel like I am like, really breaking ground here and I am just now at a point where I'm getting new information, like actually genuinely new information because all of this stuff is. A lot of things that people are just been sitting on for 20 years.

Wow. Do you think that there are people in the town who know exactly what happened to your dad? 

Yes. I think this is like the weirdest case of the worst kept secret. I think a lot of people, maybe they don't know, but I think a lot of people have speculations and are on the right track and have an idea of what they think happened and they just haven't said anything. Because again, they're like, oh, it doesn't matter. It's not that important. Or maybe everybody knows this and I'm just, one person. , it took me 10 episodes to come to some sort of conclusion about what I think happened and I. That information or those lines of thinking were things that half this town have already been thinking. And it's like, where were you when this happened? What were you doing? What were you weren't saying anything. So yeah, I think a lot of people have a lot of speculation and just are sitting around.

Do you think that part of it is also is there a distrust of the police? I think you mentioned that. Are these people just I'm not going to the police with this information. I was raised that like you talk to the police, you trust the, but I grew up in like rural Kansas, where like there were two cops and they were your dad's friend. So my understanding of the police is different. So what is the relationship in that town? 

I think you're spot on. I think there's this element of not trusting the police. For sure. I also think the longer it goes, the less likely you are to think that even if they had new information, what are they gonna do with it. They've already not done anything, so why would they care now? So I think those two lines of thinking in combination with each other are like a for sure. I'm not gonna call them even if you think one or the other, but a lot of people think both. So it's like they already don't trust the police and they've already not done anything, so why would I bother? I also think there's this idea that my dad is already dead, so why would we, negatively impact our community by locking up someone else in the community? When this guy's already gone, so who cares? Why would we ruin another person's life? And I think that is part of it too. There's a gang element that I don't really discuss in the show partially 'cause I wasn't fully aware of it until more recently. But I think that plays a part in it where people are really protective of their own. And it's weird that there's nowhere else to go when you don't trust the police, but you need help. Like that's your option is bleed out or call 9 1 1. Those are your options and I think a lot of people proverbially speaking are just bleeding out because they really don't trust the police enough to call and get help. And that's what's been happening in this case, I think. And the longer it goes, the less likely there are even to be able to help because it's just time, kills these things. It's really crucial. Time is really crucial in murder investigation specifically. So the longer it goes, it's what are they gonna do now? But I think that they get too scared to call.

And I wonder if the whole snitching element plays, a role in that as well, oh, for sure. 

Whether or not people know why my dad was murdered or who did it, there is this sort of looming. Feeling that like it could have been because he was a snitch. Even if it wasn't, it could have been. And that alone is enough for people to be like, I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut 'cause I don't wanna be next. And then also this idea that there is no protection in place or anything to be done if you do offer information. So if your options are, put yourself in danger or tell they're not gonna, they're not gonna say anything. It's really unfortunate that they can't offer sort of anything in exchange for that. Not that I think they would want to or care to. I look at, it's hard not to compare what's happening right now with the Brian Thompson case. Belmont County wouldn't even drive across the river to look into my dad's murder. And NYPD is going to Pennsylvania to a McDonald's to arrest the guy. And I think people think every murder investigation gets the same resources as this one. So they look at this and they're like, wow, look at that. Oh my God, isn't it so great? JonBenet Ramsey has 87 documentaries about her, or they found Gabby Petito because all these people on TikTok were like so excited about this case and finding this girl. And it's not everyone gets that. You see it in your face all the time? So you just assume that like this is the norm. It's not the norm. And when you are dealing with such a lack of resources and such a lack of interest. It's not that easy to solve a murder. We think it is because people are doing it on Reddit threads, but it's really hard when you don't have the support and the help of the police and these resources that should, be working in the exact same way that they were to find this guy in a McDonald's. Where's the help for people who need it in these smaller towns? And even in, Chicago people are getting killed all the time and they're like, oh no, we can't find him. And it's you have way more resources than that to find these people. But it's really sad. And I think once you see that enough, like people do in this community specifically, it's very hard to trust that the police will look out for you and. Use your information and try to find answers with it. I think it's really hard to trust that. 

I'm sure they're like why should I even care? And that's really sad because they're not thinking about, you or your dad's family or in his friends that are wanting answers, they're I'm just not gonna help the police. And it's it's more than that. It's so much more than that. Do you think your dad being black played a role in the police being more dis like in their disinterest? Or do you think it's just that police department that they're small and they don't have a lot of resources?

I think both. I. I think it's a small department. I've been there, it's like my apartment building is bigger than their office. And there's only six units in my apartment building. But I do think given the context and the time and the location, it's very hard to imagine that in 2002 in Belmont County, Ohio, when a drug dealer was shot and killed, that they treated this case the same as they would for a white man. It's very hard for me to buy that. I don't think it's all about race, but I just don't think that if my dad looked any differently, you would argue that they weren't treating that case differently. And I think it's hard to justify spending time and resources on something that someone quote unquote had coming for them. And I think that's a bad way to look at it. I think that's, not only unethical, but also really harmful. But I think when you look at these communities, they try to say black on black crime or whatever, they're operating under the assumption that whoever killed my dad isn't out there just killing random people. So the community is still safe. They just got this guy because he did something to them, or, wronged them or whatever. So not that unsafe for the community. I would argue the opposite. If there's a killer on the loose, I would want to feel safe like they were caught. But they spin it into this like very communal issue.They really play it down to oh, there was some sort of beef happening. The police believe it was this like drug dealer robbing drug dealer situation, which is their way of saying black on black crime. But it's hard to imagine that race didn't play a role in it. But I think there were other factors involved. Of course. I don't think it was just that, but I do think that played a role in it for sure. 

I wanna know about Omar, his relationship with your dad and then if you think there's a connection between the robbery at his house and the murder of your dad. 

So Omar is my dad's sister's son. So my dad had several sisters, but one of his sisters Pearl had a few children, three sons, and one of them is Omar and they lived next door to my dad. So Pearl's house was next door to my dad's house, and Omar lived with her. So they were neighbors. And also, had this like nephew uncle relationship. And there was a home invasion at Pearl's house the morning that my dad was murdered at around six in the morning several men broke in to Pearl and Omar's house. Pearl was asleep in her room. Omar and Kim, who was Omar's girlfriend at the time, were in the living room. And these men broke in and they were looking for money and they were looking specifically for a safe. And that safe ended up not being at Pearl's house, but they were looking for it. There's some speculation that while they were rummaging through the house. For over 30 minutes, which is a very long home invasion. Omar potentially had mentioned that the safe was next door at my dad's house, and that's what led these guys over to my dad's house. The police believe that this was not a planned attack on my dad, that they thought my dad was armed. When they got to my dad's house, they had kicked in the door and they saw my dad reaching for what they assumed was a gun. So they shot my dad and ended up killing him. A lot of this just doesn't really make sense. They kicked in the door, but they never entered the house. They never stole anything from my dad's house. They only shot my dad once and it was a kill shot to his head. I think you'd have to be, lucky or very strategic to shoot someone once in the head and kill them. I don't think I could do that, especially in a high pressured environment where it's like right off the cuff you're spooked and you get lucky enough to shoot someone once and they're dead. Like that just seems very strange to me then to not enter the house at all. Not even to grab oh, let's take this necklace, let's take this thing and run. Nothing at all seems very weird, especially when the intention was to find this. Safe that they're presumably willing to kill someone for. Seems weird that you wouldn't then go in just to see if it's there. So that's what happened in the connection there. It's also presumed that Omar did go outside with these men, but then Omar says he ran away when they shot my dad. So whether or not Omar was physically standing there when they shot my dad is unknown because Omar is very unclear in his retellings of the story where he was when the gunshot was fired. Later on I uncover that he told other people other versions of the story, but one of the versions is very detailed what my dad's body looked like laying on the ground and it was accurate. So it does make you believe that he was there and saw it. Because how would he know what it looked like? So just like little weird things like that where it's were you there? Were you not there? Were you already running away from these men? Were you not what was happening there? I can only make assumptions at this point because no one is really saying the truth, but I think that potentially Omar did lead them over there thinking oh, maybe the money is there. Or maybe, my dad would've given him the money to get these guys to leave them alone. Potentially my dad heard Omar's voice on the front porch, which is why a confidential informant, former drug dealer, drug addict with multiple guns in his house would not grab a gun when there are people on the front porch as he's heading to the front door. I think he had to have known or recognized these voices or else he would've grabbed a gun. Especially hearing your nephew's voice, I think would make you not grab a gun. I think even if he recognized the other voices, that's not enough for him not to grab a gun. But I think hearing a family member is enough to say, oh, like what's going on outside? I'm just gonna go check. So I do think that Omar had to have been there in order to justify my dad passing several guns on his way to the front door and not grabbing a single one, especially with my sister in the house. And he is very protective of her. So those are all things that kind of lead me to believe that Omar was at least around in those last few moments, but. The story has shifted and changed so many times by so many people that it's very hard to pin down where everyone was and what was going on and what they were even wearing. And Omar changed clothes before the police arrived. So people who saw him make the nine one one call say he was wearing something different than the police say when they arrived. It's just so many different stories and so many different things and so many variables that keep shifting and changing, which really make Omar look very sketchy, which is unfortunate for him. 'cause I don't think that he like pulled the trigger and killed my dad. But it's not looking good for Omar and the lies as he's defending himself to make himself look less sketchy, just make him look worse. And it's very hard because it's like just. You're the only person that really knows, just tell the truth. And I do think there's this element of potentially fear and you don't wanna be a snitch and all of these other things. And I don't think that he's also fully there. I think that he's dealt with some mental health issues and also maybe some like remedial issues that prohibit him from really being able to like fully grasp what happened. But I also don't think that's really an excuse. I think that he should be able to just say what happened and be able to, process and move on in his own life and also for the sake of our family. But that's the Omar. Side of the story and the very confusing bits of it that just have never added up and don't make any sense.

Reading through the police documents and stuff is like the most chaotic thing I have ever read. And then the different stories he told, I'm like what happened? 

What really happened? And I think that's what's so bizarre is you can form a little bit from piecing together like Kim and Pearl and Omar's testimony of I do think these guys broken. I think they tied them up, whether someone in the house knew what was happening. I do think it was a surprise to Kim and Pearl and potentially Omar maybe. Then it's like they go outside and then there's this gap in the storyline of okay, you've gotta get from Omar's house to Pearl or to my dad's house. And what happened in that amount of time, what was discussed, what was said, what was implied. They're going up the steps to my dad's house and what happens then? And I think that is what shift's motive. That's what shifts. If this was an accident, if Omar had anything to do with it. Like all of those questions get answered if we know just what happened in those few moments. I don't know if we'll ever know it from him, but

has he ever talked to you? 

We have spoken several times and every time the tone has been different. We've talked before where it's been like, we're family. I'm here to help. Whatever you need. It's been, I was scared. I don't know really what happened. I was a victim. It's been, fuck you. I can't believe you're exploiting me and my family and turning on me publicly. And then it's back to Hey, you're doing the right thing. It's all over the place. Like, I don't even know the last time we talked at this point, it's I don't think he's a piece of solving this because he's so chaotic and like really unreliable. But 

yeah, I don't know. It's crazy that he changed his clothes. He just comes off as so suspicious. It's very weird. Like it doesn't make any sense. Oh my gosh. All the different stories he told and I don't know, when I was reading through the court documents, I was like, is this home invasion story even real, 

and that's the rollercoaster I went on as well, where it was like, was this stage, is it made up? I don't know. It's so confusing. And it's making this very difficult because I have no idea. Some days I feel like, okay, I'm starting to piece this all together, but, and then it's who's the, if I do figure it out, who the hell's gonna listen to me? 'cause it's like I can't arrest someone, I can't prosecute someone. And there's really not been a lot of pressure on the police department to do much. I could all day scream to the rooftops, I think this person killed my dad, and the morals of that get really tricky. But I could do that freedom of speech, but then what, it's okay, and what do I do with that? It's been very difficult to figure out, I'm still on this path of discovering things and finding answers, but then it's okay, but what if you do then what? It's still very open-ended of so many different things could or could not happen. And then I just have to live with that. It's very complicated.

Thank you for listening to Part 1 of this 2-part interview from Crime Weekly. Stay tuned for Part 2 and I’ll see you back in the feed next week to continue Ice Cold Case: Investigating the Murder of John Cornelius McGhee.