Crime Weekly Full Interview (Part 2)

This is Part 2 of a 2-part interview I did with Haley Gray, researcher for the series on Crime Weekly about my dad John Cornelius McGhee. This was such an incredible deep-dive to help Derrick and Stephanie understand the nuances and details of my dad’s case before they recorded the episodes. Even if you’ve been listening to Ice Cold Case, this is a unique look inside what an interview looks like that I do often for different shows that decide to cover my dad’s case. It can be emotional, the questions are intense, but it’s part of the task I have to do to share J.C. McGhee’s story with the world. If you’re just jumping in, I’d encourage you to start with Part 1. 

After all you've uncovered, what do you think happened to your dad?

 Right now I think that sort of at a macro level, it was like an opportunistic situation. I think that someone had intention to get rid of my dad, but I also think that they saw the opportunity to make a little bit of extra money off of this home invasion at Omar's house. 'cause I do think that there at some point was a safe with money in it from drug dealing and people were after that safe. And so I think it was this combination of a home invasion to steal this money. They couldn't find it. But really my dad was the target and they needed to get over there and take care of that. So they went over to my dad's house. I think that Omar was used as this ploy to get my dad outside just because the circumstances are so interesting where. My dad, who has grown up in this drug community was a drug dealer, a confidential informant, owned multiple guns. He passed several guns on his way to the door. I think the only way that my dad would be walking to his front door knowing that his daughter was in the house at six 30 in the morning without holding a gun, as if he knew there was someone he knew outside. And so I think they used and leveraged my cousin Omar's voice to lure my dad outside without a gun. I think they knew that if my dad heard Omar, he wasn't gonna go reach for a rifle. And so with them yelling for my dad or talking loudly on the front porch. That leaves my dad room to be like, oh, what's Omar doing outside? Let me go get him. So he's walking to the door, which gives them the perfect opportunity to shoot him, and he's completely unarmed. And I say that because A, my dad didn't have a gun in his hand, which is very bizarre given his history and the access to guns truly on his way to the door. But also it was one kill shot to the head. And you'd have to be very lucky to get a shot like that successfully. Then leave. It wasn't even like they were just shooting around and they got lucky that one hit him. One shot was fired. That's it. So it feels very intentional in that sense where it wasn't like they were just flailing around in self-defense, or as the cops believe, like my dad was reaching for a gun, so they were scared and they shot him again. Very lucky to kill the person right away. With one shot out of self-defense, you'd probably hit an arm, a shoulder, something else before you're hitting them directly in the head. And so it all just leads me to believe that this was like, you have to be very calm and calculated to get that, and it felt very intentional. So I do think that there was this plot whether or not Omar's house was part of the plan originally, I'm not sure. I do think it was like, let's get some money, let's get rid of JC and let's get out of here. And they only did one of those things. But I do think that there were several men there in order to get this done. I do think they took Omar outside. I do think that they took him all the way up to my dad's front door and either when they shot my dad or right after Omar was able to run away because they were obviously preoccupied with what was going on there. As he was running away, I think they took off immediately. And that was that. Now who they are and why they did it is the two biggest questions, which will obviously also lead to probably solving it. And I've heard a lot of different things. I've heard a lot of different names. There's nicknames running around, there's circumstances and, a lot of different theories that could all be parts of the whole of this. I think right now it had something to do with my dad's drug dealing history and some sort of revenge plot. I think people were either very unhappy with what my dad had done to them, someone that they know, or they were paid to do it by someone who felt that they were owed sort of justice in their own sense. And yeah, just trying now to figure out which one, was it the person directly who felt that they needed revenge or was it someone behind the scenes Wizard of Oz, like orchestrating all of this. And I think that will be revealed when motive comes into play. Who would've wanted to do this, and would they have the guts to do it themselves or would they pay someone else to do it for them? Or did they find someone who also wanted my dad dead and used that to their advantage? So there's lots of different theories, but I do think from a macro level, I think it was a planned attack. I think that they went next door to try to get money, potentially cover their tracks, and that they went there specifically to kill my dad.

 That makes total sense because if they were truly like what they told Omar, they wanted to go over there to check for the safe, why would you immediately shoot your dad like the second they got there, like they didn't kill Omar the second that they opened the door, so it's just so weird. 

They were in Omar's house for roughly 40 minutes. They were at my dad's house for 60 seconds max. And my dad ended up dead. It does not feel like that was an accident at all. And they also stole nothing from my dad's house. Now my dad had, cash lying around guns, lying around. He was wearing expensive jewelry the day he was shot. There's lots of different things. You could have easily gone in, grabbed something and left. My sister didn't run out of her room for at least a minute and a half, so you've got time to get something and leave, and they stole nothing. So this also doesn't feel like solely money motivated. It felt like. We're here to do a job and we did our job and we're leaving. So it's very weird. 

Do you think it's possible that they went to Omar's house thinking it was your dad's? 

 I think it was a setup. And the motive for that too is very strange because it set up Omar to be a victim. It set him up in the eyes of the police to be the victim of a home invasion. And, I don't know if Omar had anything to do with it, but it helps him. There was a home invasion at his house, but also, there was probably money lying around, whether it was from him. He's got two brothers that were also dealing drugs. There's definitely this opportunity to get money. If there was money in that safe, they would've really made out probably pretty well in that 40 minutes. More money than I've probably ever made in 40 minutes. But um, that just wasn't the case. And so, yeah, I think it was this matter of it helped Omar for sure. It also set up, now the police keep calling this a home invasion gone wrong. So this has really set up a narrative for the day that benefits anyone who's trying to get away with. I don't know the different ones. What is that first degree murder planned? So like right there. You already go from one type of murder to the other. If it's, oh, it was a home invasion, gone robbed. It was an accident or not planned. Maybe we wanted to kill him, but we didn't think about it before we got there. That already changes the dynamic of what it was. And I think that these people are not dumb. I think it takes a lot of brains to run a business. 'cause that's what drug dealing is a business and at the level that it's happening in this town. Looking at even my cousin Rico, if he had done anything else, he'd be the CEO of some big wig company. Ironically, he'd probably go from like drug dealer to like the CEO of a United healthcare getting shot because he is that smart. Like he's brilliant in that way. And so these people aren't dumb. They know what they're doing, they're very calculated. They've also dealt with the system for a long time, so they're very aware of how this stuff works. Almost more than like you and I, because I know how it works. You've researched case after case. They're living in this world where like they're going to prison every few years for several months. They're meeting other people who have been locked up for stuff. They get how this all works. And I think that this was, I couldn't have planned it better. The fact that no one can solve this case. They clearly did a good job. And so yeah, I think that it's a lot more orchestrated than I think anyone wants to believe or lead on because. There may be, a pride issue of we can't solve this. It had to have been an accident. There's no way that like someone else smarted us. But really all signs lead to this had to have been planned. So With that being said who are the key players that you think need to be focused on? I think there were four guys there. And this is all obviously speculation and based on what the cops believe, which is funny, we're allowed to say, here's what the cops think, even if they're wrong. But if I say I think it now all of a sudden it's like defamation and it, that's so crazy to me. But anyways, I think in line with what the cops have put on paper it's very possible that Darrell Smith, Duncan waits, Danny Banks and this guy Tone were there. And those are the four I've narrowed it down to, based on connection to each other, connection to my dad motive what they were doing at the time, word on the street is Duncan Waits has turned his life around and is doing really right now. But I'm not basing that off of him today. I'm basing that off of 2002 version of him. So I think that those four were potentially there. I have spoken to Darrell Smith and he says he was not. Take that for what it's worth, maybe he wasn't. He says he has nothing to do with it. Maybe he didn't, maybe he had a little bit to do with it. Maybe he did it. There's so many, who knows. But he says he didn't do it. And he said that to my face. I've been. Teetering with the possibility that he didn't do it. But the cops believe he was there, and it is possible. There's nothing about it that's oh, he definitely couldn't have been there. He was living in the town at the time he was around. It's very possible that he was there. It's not like he has an alibi that he was in Miami or New York or Los Angeles. He was around. So it is possible. So who knows. But those are the four that, I've been trying to figure out can I find another alibi for them?

Can I find another possibility of where they could have been that night? Right now I can't. So they're still on my list. 

Can you talk a little bit about how the police handled the investigation? Do you think that they took the investigation seriously or were they just eh, 

I don't know if they took it all that seriously and not to excuse it at all. But that's common. This was a black guy who was known for dealing drugs who got shot in his house. It doesn't really feel like a public safety threat. It doesn't really feel like anything worth. Spooking the public about or diving into if you do or don't solve it, it's very inconsequential. And so I don't know if there was really a lot of pressure for them to do anything about it. So I think it's probably this combination of in 2002, black people, we think black people aren't treated well. Now. 2002 was like, that's still 20 years ago. Without any social media or any real movements happening, no one's looking into that kind of stuff if it doesn't really impact the greater good. And then this case specifically really does not impact anyone except my family and my dad. And so with those things all combined, I also think, it was an uphill battle without a lot of info. So when you've got a case that's really difficult, it's very easy to be like, oh, it's unsolvable, it's too hard, it's a cold case. There's no real need to be doing the hard work in their eyes. And so I think that is probably part of why it just never really got a lot of attention. It never really got a lot of time. When we see this now, when there's a really high profile case, people will bang down the door to solve it when it is really public. And I think what happened in this case was the minute that there was a roadblock. Instead of trying to get around it, they just turned back around and went home. And so I think that is unfortunately why this case remains in the state that it's in. And I can speculate, why they weren't willing to do that, but I think it's partially just the fact that it didn't really feel like it was that impactful to the community and they didn't think anyone would be protesting that this wasn't getting solved.

I think that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, it's So, where's the investigation today? And have the police been willing to work with you? 

 I haven't spoken to them in almost a year and a half. So I'm very unaware of like where they're at, what they're thinking, who they're leaning towards, if they're even thinking about this at all. Granted, it's been a while since I reached out to them, but they haven't reached out to me at all, and I've seen no updates in any public forum. As far as they haven't done any news interviews or anything like that, so I really don't know. My investigation has changed drastically since the last time I talked to them. I don't know what's shifted on their end, but from their perspective, they were very adamant that it was a home invasion gone wrong. They think Darrell was involved. And that was where. It began and ended. So I don't know if by now they are thinking something different, they have any more developments or if they still think the same thing. 'cause they haven't looked into any new information, so I'm actually not sure. 

So this kind of leads into my next question. I wanna talk about why you decided to start the podcast, but I wanna back up and say, so in between the time when your dad was killed and they just like you said, hit the roadblock and then turned around to when he started the podcast, did they do any investigating or was it just put on the back burner?

So they arrested Daryl the day it happened and like later in the day. 'cause it happened early in the morning. And they had him held for a while and then they took it to a grand jury to see how much evidence they had, if they could take it to trial. And they dropped the charges during the grand jury. So after that was it. They've never arrested anyone else since. They've never taken this into a grand jury to test the evidence that they have. They've never done anything else since then. So I think right around like 2003, early 2004, this was finished. In their eyes it was unsolvable and that was the end of that. They never went back to see what else they could find. So since then that's been it. They say that they've looked into it. The one police officer. Told me that he doesn't go a day without thinking about this case and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I, I mean, there's no developments have happened in, over 20 years. So I don't think that's true. But yeah nothing since then. 

It's almost like they came up with their own suspect immediately and then when it didn't work out, they're like, we did everything we could. 

A hundred percent. That's exactly it. It feels like when they realized that they maybe didn't have enough for Darrell, they were like, oh, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe he wasn't the guy. Maybe you should continue investigating. Or try to 

prove it. That was their when they talked to me, they were like, oh, we just don't have enough evidence on Darrell. We've gotta get more evidence. So we're gonna drop these charges for now. Not take it all the way through the process.'cause in my mind I'm like, oh, well then just take him to trial and if he wins, he wins. If you win, you win. But they were like there's the thing called double jeopardy. If he is declared not guilty by a jury, he can't go back for the same crime. So they explained it to me like we don't wanna risk it. We didn't wanna take him all the way through a trial and then he's not guilty 'cause we really think it's him. So then in my mind I'm like, all right, so you're gonna drop the charges for now to go get more evidence and go get more stuff so you can prove it was him. But now it's been 20 plus years and that's never happened. And you don't have anything more than what you had before. So you either can't find the evidence so it wasn't him, or you're not looking for anything. As time goes by, it's detrimental 'cause you're going farther and further away from being able to solve it. It's very weird that they would drop the charges but still think it's that person. 'cause in my mind it's then all you have to do is prove it. 

Yeah. Or you know, it's been 20 plus years, go back and re-interview people. People mature, like you said, that one guy has turned his life around or whatever. Like, That's a really important part of investigating cold cases is re-interviewing people. And because if they're scared back then they may not be scared now and they may be willing to tell you the truth or may be willing to tell you more. That's, they're just not doing anything and that's completely unacceptable.

Exactly. I mean if some people aren't in the picture anymore, a lot of people are dying, going to prison for other things. There's definitely a world in which people could say, oh, I'm not afraid anymore. There's, circumstances have changed, things have shuffled around. I'm willing to speak my truth. And that was one thing that I always found so interesting was the police were very adamant that they wanted to talk to Kim Smith. Oh, if we could just interview her again, like we would love to talk to her again, but we just can't find her. I left the police station, got in my car and from the parking lot, had her pulled up on Facebook. She lives in that county still. Her son goes to a public school there. It's not hard to find her. She's not hiding. So it was very interesting to have this weird experience of when I left my very first conversation with the police, I really believed them. I was like, man, it really seems like they're doing everything they can and they wanna help me. They just sat with me for three hours. They sent me everything I've asked for seems like they're really down to help. And then you get stuff like this where you're like, that took me two and a half minutes and I don't even live here and I'm not a cop. So very weird that they're telling me one thing and acting a different way. And like the words just aren't aligning. And that's where I started to get a little hesitant. I don't know who I can trust because this feels something, feels really off about this. 

It's almost like they're just placating you while you're meeting with them, and nothing that they're saying to you is true. They just want to make you feel better and also not go blasting them on social media and stuff. 

A hundred percent. What made you start your own podcast? I think culminating all of this stuff, I was at a point where I wasn't sure what to do. I felt like I had, sat with the cops, I had talked to them, I'm sure I cried. I cry all the time. I'm sitting with them face to face. This is not over the phone. This is me driving 41 hours. One way to sit in their office and be like, I wanna know more about what happened to my dad. My first interview with them was 1, 2, 3 years before the podcast was released.So they had plenty of time to do something. They didn't, I never heard really any new updates from them while I was investigating for those four years. And it felt like nothing was gonna change. I knew that we live in this very weird world where TikTok is solving cases. Reddit threads are blowing up cases. Podcasts are putting pressure on police departments. And when you're doing everything you possibly can and you feel like you've done everything, but that, it feels like, okay, I guess that's what I have to do now and maybe it will work and maybe it won't. None of this other stuff has worked, but maybe it will. And so I started it out of this weird desperation of I just don't know what else to do. Then I started to build this excitement that maybe this will move the needle and build some traction. The motive kind of shifted to let's make this a high profile case. If people don't care about my dad's case, 'cause it's not high profile. Then I'll make it high profile. And if everyone's talking about it and it's in the zeitgeist, it now all of a sudden becomes the thing that needs to be solved and the thing that everyone's talking about. And that became the new goal in again, this desperation to get it solved. I had run out of options. It wasn't serving me to ask nicely. It was only going to work if I got a little more bold and crazy about it. And that was uncomfortable, but it was in my mind necessary because I had done everything else I could do. And I'm, it's still not working, but it's also been a little bit cathartic and therapeutic in a way. But I think that the big goal and the big purpose of this was make my dad a household name. And if I can do that, it's gonna be. I'll be two centimeters away from it getting solved because people in the same way that I feel right now where I won't rest until it's solved, these little Gen Zs on TikTok and these activists on Reddit are also gonna feel that way.And there's power in numbers and there's power in interest. And when there's a group of people that are wanting this to get solved and it moves from just being me to being a bunch of people, maybe they'll do something about it. And so that was the idea.

I think that's amazing. And you've done such a good job, spreading awareness of your dad's case. And you were in People Magazine, you've won a bunch of awards, you've had thousands of people listen to your podcasts like you're doing so, so amazing. And you should be really proud of yourself for everything that you've done and continue to do. Thank you. 

Yeah. And the purpose shifts too. I mean, That's still sort of the main goal, but as time goes by, I knew nothing about the True Crime podcast world and now that I'm, in it so deeply, I'm seeing, this conversation that's been happening around ethical, true crime and all of this stuff. And I did not realize when I jumped into this that I was creating something that was actually very different than what was out there already. This idea of someone telling their own story is rare, and doing it in a way that feels organic to them is, is crazy and not normal. And I did not know that. And now the purpose is sort of branched off into other things, which is. Empowering other people to do the same and, and to take control of their own story and build this blueprint for other people and be a voice for people who feel like they can't trust the bigger creators to like do justice to their story. Um, I get messages from people a lot now about that specifically. And it does feel like on the days where I'm like, maybe I've done enough for my dad's case and I feel like I have the closure that I was after. I think about the people like that who are maybe relying on me now in a different way for different things. And that's been a bit of a driving force as far as purpose of the podcast. And I know that at some point I'll have to be ready and willing to let go of the boat. But I think the purpose is adjusting every day as there's new developments and. New listeners and new people engaging with this in a way that feels a little less grimy than other types of shows.

So your answer to that question led me to back up just a little bit further and say what led you to want to investigate your dad's case. If you wanna talk a little bit about that. 

I think I have a general curiosity for the unknown and big question marks. And I grew up consuming true crime. Ironically, my mom who knew my dad was murdered the whole time would have me watching America's Most Wanted at seven years old every Saturday night. And I'm like, I remember, I mean I grew up in West Virginia where up until I think I was in college when I got my first house key, we never locked our door. Like I didn't own a house key until I moved to college. I came home one year and I was like, why can't I get into my house? And my mom was like, oh yeah, we lock the door now. And I'm like, oh, we locked the door. That's crazy. So like, I remember as a kid being like seven or eight years old, and I'm like in my bed, which is on the first floor of the house and I'm like, oh my God, did we lock the door tonight? Like I, I don't think we lock our door like I is the door locked, like there's gonna be like a boogeyman who comes and steals me 'cause I just watch this on tv. So I grew up watching True Crime and being wildly afraid of the whole world because I was way too young to be watching this stuff. And America's Most Wanted is terrible 'cause it's and we don't know who did it. And I'm like, oh my God, he's just out there. Whatever. It was so scary. It's like watching a scary movie, but you're like, oh, this is real life. So I grew up watching this stuff and feeling this almost like weird connection, but I didn't understand why I felt this way. But my mom would have, I don't even know the channel, but it's like they play true crime all day long. I don't know if it was oxygen yet. I'm, but it might've been. And it's show after show after show recreate after recreate. And I'm watching all of it while my mom's like vacuuming the living room on a Saturday afternoon. It's like ridiculous. And so I think growing up with this, I remember one of my earliest memories is watching Nancy Grace scream about Natalie Holloway on tv. Like, that's when I can vividly hear a much younger Nancy Grays with a thicker accent, even back then screaming about this girl who went missing in Aruba and like all this crazy stuff. And. I think having that oh this is so interesting. Oh this is just like fascinating to me that this is happening or whatever. All the same reasons that people like True crime, to then find out you're in the middle of a Nancy Grace story is very weird. And so I think just naturally I had this genuine curiosity behind, like I wanted to know what happened to all these other people on tv and now that's not another person on tv. That's my dad. I think weighed on me for a while and I. That is what was just like always on my mind as I was like moving through life. I didn't really start looking into this until six or seven years after I found out that my dad was murdered. But once I had a moment to really sit with it, it was like I just gotta know what happened. Like I'm so curious what was going on. And I think that's what started it. And then once I got the case files, and once I started to hear some of these really crazy stories, it was like, oh, I can't put this down like I need to know. And then I think that needing to know turned into maybe if I ask nicely it'll get solved. And then that turned into that's not happening, so now I need to do something about it. And then I think in a full circle moment, I go back to I remember watching all this shit on tv. If I make something like that, maybe that's the answer. Maybe if Nancy Grace is screaming about who she thinks is the obvious person and basically incriminating them on television, maybe it'll get solved.

What does justice look like for you? Does that mean just solving the case or do you want your dad's killers to go to prison as well?

That's a tough one. I've grappled with this a lot and I think about this on a daily basis. And I think that my measure for justice really does change every day. In the beginning, the knowing was enough. If I could just know what happened, I would be okay with it. And, I still do feel that way. It would be awesome if this went to trial and someone served time for this. And it felt like the justice system did its purpose only because I think the irony of that happening is beautiful because my dad was so wrongly treated by the system. For it to full circle then serve him feels very therapeutic for me. I don't know the reality of that. I don't know if that's possible. I don't know if there's enough evidence. I don't know if there's enough anything for it to really make it through a system like that, especially given the fact that our justice system is one of the most unjust in the world. It's. Almost exclusively speculative. You're leaving the fate of people up to nine to 12 strangers that have nothing to do with this and have no idea how any of this works. And almost on purpose, when you go through the jury selection process, it's beneficial to not know anything, which is insane. We pick the one, they're like, oh, you're a lawyer. You don't qualify. It's crazy that we're like picking the most like random regular people to decide the fate of whether or not someone did something. Whether or not the family of the person who was harmed gets justice. It's very wild. And so I don't know if that's such a gamble to throw my hopes and dreams in the hands of this system. That also takes a really long time. So many things could go wrong. Mistrial are so common. To throw my peace into the hands of that feels like I'm setting myself up for failure. 'cause even to get it to that point is such a long shot. And then for that system to then work in my favor, I'd rather buy 45,000 lottery tickets and hedge my bets. So I think for me, I had to decide in the beginning, very early on, where would my bar be for some sort of closure and peace. And I think just knowing if I can get to a point where I'm like, all of this evidence lines up in my head and all of this makes sense to me, and this is what happened to my dad. Whether or not a court of law is going to convict someone, whether or not they're gonna go arrest someone or whatever. If I know that this is what happened and I can get this confirmed by the right people and the right witnesses and the right evidence for me, I'm good. I did what I came here to do. I think now this is so public that there is a chance. It goes all the way through trial. 'cause how could any police department consciously let me lay it all out and say it with someone and not do anything about it? That would be crazy. They should all be locked up for that. But it's possible that's what happens and they make some excuse that there's not enough evidence or they don't have the right tools or whatever. And I just have to be okay with that. So I think for me, justices knowing inherently what happened to my dad, being able to go to sleep at night and go, I did what I came here to do. Leave the things that are not in my control, out of my control. I am not a cop. I am not a prosecutor. I can't decide if we bring charges against someone. I can't decide what their punishment will be. I can't decide if a jury [00:34:00] convicts them. I can look into every lead possible, find as much evidence as possible, and try to figure out what happened to my dad. So that's what I focus on and how I measure the quote unquote success of this. I think for a lot of us, even if you don't think that, if you think you want a trial, I think what ends up happening is once you know something flips in you and you're like, okay, I have this level of peace. 'cause you're fighting to know. So even if you're waiting for it to go to trial or whatever, you're not fighting to know anymore. And I think that alone is like this level of okay, I don't have to be like doing this research anymore. I don't have to be doing all this stuff. Maybe I am waiting for trial. Maybe that would be nice. But this like fighting for survival feeling goes away. 'cause you're like, okay, at least I know. And I think that is a game changer for moving on with your life and all these other things. It's just really nice to have that knowledge. In cases like this where. The unknowns become so overwhelming. Trial feels like such a small piece of the bigger picture, which is just knowing what happened. I think that for me, that's a huge part of it is I just wanna know. I mean there's so much outta my control. Like I am, I'm very anti-death penalty. Ohio has the death penalty. If this was first degree murder, it's very likely that whoever killed my dad, but there's like a solid, like 45% chance that they could be sentenced to death. It would probably never be killed because it takes so long. But that's a possibility and I don't agree with that. But again, there's so much that's just not in my control and it is what it is. And I just have to focus on the things that I can focus on, which is I wanna know what happened and. Now I feel this obligation to share that with the people who have been really in the trenches with me and listening to the show and, looking into stuff and sending me tips and doing all of this stuff. So I almost feel like I'm not even just doing it for myself anymore. It's for the people who have donated money to help me get this across the finish line. There's so many, people now that I feel connected to. But I think once I get to that point, whatever happens next is not in my control. I just have to focus on, knowing what I can know and uncovering what I can uncover so that hopefully I can start to move on with my life. And I think that there's this idea that I. You do a True Crime podcast and you become like a celebrity and that's your life. And I'm like, I wanna be done with this so bad. I can't wait to do literally anything else. And I think what's funny about that is most of the time the people that happens to are the celebrities that it [00:37:00] creates aren't connected to the story at all. And maybe that's why it's easier for them to put on this face and, take selfies with people and become this personality type in this industry because they're not dealing with the fact that this is someone that they didn't start their show out of desperation. They started their show out of I'm a cool person who can talk and people like me. And so again, I just have to focus on what I can focus on and what I am in control of. So. It's just so mature and emotionally mature for you to think those things. And I think a lot of people would like to come to that realization as well.

And I think that would help a lot of people who are in a similar situation to you and I know it had to be difficult for you to come to that point. I'm not saying this was easy or this was overnight, or anything like that. But I do think that there's a sense of freedom and letting that stuff go and just focusing on what you can do. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And, And I think that translates into literally anything in life. And I've tried to adapt that in my day to day as well, but it's too overwhelming to think about all of these different scenarios and then realize I can think about them, but which one happens is not up to me so like my time is better served doing literally anything else. I'm sure you wanna move on with your, Not with your life, because of course you'll always be dealing with the loss of your dad, but spending your time doing things that aren't like agonizing over every detail of your dad's murder. Like of course you're gonna want to go hang out with friends or do, like you said, literally anything else.

Totally. I am ready to. Feel like I have stable relationships and I'm not, crazy all the time. But yeah, I think it's funny. I work in comedy a lot and my friends think it's so funny because everywhere I go I'm basically promoting [00:39:00] my podcast. So I'm at the comedy clubs and people are like, oh, what do you do? And I'm like, I direct comedy specials and I have this podcast about my dad getting murdered. And people start to laugh 'cause they're like, oh my God, this girl's so funny. And I'm like, that's actually real. And so it's this very strange thing. I'm just ready to be like, I do anything else. I do literally anything else? 

It's so funny that they think it's a joke. 

Because it's just looking at the setting, it's and it sounds so insane. That it's oh yeah. And like normally I'm like, oh, I have a podcast. And then people are like, oh, what's your podcast about? And you're like, oh, my dead dad. And they're like, oh, ha. Anyways what's it about? Do you cook? What's your podcast about? And I'm like no. It's like actually about my dead dad. We all cope with stuff differently, but I, humor is so important to me and my life and my job. But , it is funny and I'm very excited to have a new identifier to feel like, 'cause as much as we wanna say our work isn't our personality, it is. And so I'm excited to be like, oh, and I do something else. I do Anything else? 

I'm looking forward to that day for you. I'll be like, this is Madison. Host a dateline. Do not ask about her dad. 

That's right. No, totally. Yeah. I mean, That's the thing. It's like, I feel like I'm like dead dad, girl. Like I feel like, I'm like, oh yeah, that's the girl who's dad is dead. And I joke now, before obviously no one knew about my dad's case, but when I meet people at a party or like anywhere they're like, oh so you know your podcast? And I'm like, it's about my dad. He's dead. And they're like, oh really? And I'm like, yeah, he's actually famously dead. That's what I'm known for. So yeah, it's very funny. 

Aw, I'm glad you have comedy to cope with that.

You go through all the different feelings and emotions, but I think that if you can at least end on the humor, then it makes your life a little bit easier. And again, it's one of those things where like not in your control death, you can't control that. And, I could sit here and be this sad, depressed person [00:41:00] about it all the time. That also doesn't serve me well. And so, you know, I let the feelings happen as they happen, but if I can, allow myself to process in that moment, be sad for a second, and then move on I'd rather do that because I can't control, I can't change it 23 years ago. I can't do anything about that.

How can people support you, is that listening to the podcast, sharing your dad's story? What does that look like for you? 

It's free and easy. Listen to the show, share it with people who you think would be interested. People if obviously if you know anyone from Ohio share it with them. Maybe they know someone who knows something. But yeah, listening, sharing talking about my dad's case. I think we've seen so much impact with just like the zeitgeist type of stuff. And it's the reason that like, they were able to move [00:42:00] very quickly on a Gabby Petito situation, this Idaho murder situation. They found Luigi in such a short amount of time. And it's because these things are being talked about from household to household to household. And so if my dad can become that, even if, people in California are talking about it and that's nowhere near Ohio, that still puts pressure on that police department to be like, oh shit, if people in California are talking about it and people in Texas are talking about it and people in Wyoming are talking about it we gotta do something about this. And I think that is really helpful and a free way to help, that doesn't cost anyone any money to do. If you're already generally interested in this kind of stuff, it's fairly easy to just spend a couple minutes talking about my dad's case while you're talking about true crime with your friends and talking about cases that are interesting to you or that are fascinating to you already. Throw my dad's name in the mix as well and it's already done a lot by that happening, it takes so much for it to really move the needle. So that's where, doing stuff like this is so impactful because it just helps to have my dad's name on people's minds. 

Thank you for listening to Part 2 of this interview from Crime Weekly. I’ll see you back in the feed next week to continue Ice Cold Case: Investigating the Murder of John Cornelius McGhee.